"Gay conversion" therapy group pulls the plug, although vestiges may continue
The very controversial evangelical Christian group, Exodus International, goes out of business with its president repudiating the organization's core mission, and offering apologies to the LGBT community.
A piece in FOREIGN POLICY on line suggests foreign travel may have altered president Alan Chambers' perspective, but not before the movement fueled extreme anti-gay prejudice in sub-Saharan African countries such as Uganda...
Gee, the religious right/tea people wackos are strangely silent about this. Have they given up on the notion that homosexuality is a "choice?"
What's going to happen to the Bachmann family? She's leaving office and now will he have to shut down his business "curing" gays?
It's amazing: All sorts of suffering in the world but Christians seem to worry more about who's in the next stall.
Thu, Jun 20, 2013 9:50pm
22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.~Romans1:22-28
As society rejects God...He gives those who reject Him what they desire.
Fri, Jun 21, 2013 5:29am
OIh, goodie! One of the religious right tea wackos is still around. Quoting St. Paul, who is never reported associating with women and always traveled with a young "protege." A Hellenized Jew who apparently adopted many aspects of the classic Greek lifestyle.
The Vatican has a gay lobby (the Pope admits). Priests molest little boys. Televangelists get caught with male hookers. And they keep up their homophobic attacks anyway. Not much has changed in Christianity.
"Lord, give me chastity and continence, but not yet." - St. Augustine of Hippo.
Fri, Jun 21, 2013 9:00am
Thank God (yes, I note the irony) we don't live in a Christian theocracy where St. Paul's ideas are made law. God bless religious freedom! (yes, again with the irony)
Mon, Jun 24, 2013 8:17pm
Well, I don't care what anybody else says or does, ole Mr. Pizza will never give up on the truth, and the truth here is that homosexuality is a choice, not something you're born with. So if you want to call me a racist-bigot-homophobe-westboro-baptist etc. etc., go right ahead. As was with Paul the apostle, I "count it all joy".
How about THAT, Bill Smith?
Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jun 25, 2013 9:55am
EarlGrey: Good solid scripture from St. Paul.
For me, the bigger issue is how do we minister to those folks. All sin is an abomination to God. I think of what Jesus told the women caught in sin, he said I don't condemn you, go and sin no more. This seems to be where the line gets fuzzy. We can't say that sure practicing homosexuality a fine alternative lifestyle any more than we can say, sure having an affair behind your spouses back is fine as your needs aren't being met at home. The Bible is pretty clear that both things are wrong.
But as those folks in the GLBT community believe they've got no choice and so far science seems to agree with them, but there's no definite proof yet. But the bigger question should be: How can we bring Christ to them while not compromising on the Word? That really is the bottom line for any of us who call Jesus Lord and Savior.
What makes this far more difficult in today's world is the GLBT folks no longer want to live their lives privately [they've probably always been in the church, but we never knew it, because they didn't advertise their lifestyle]. Today they want their lifestyle to be considered "normal" and for us to say its a fine alternative lifestyle. Obviously this is where most of us, as Christians, are having a real problem. How to bring the love of Christ to someone when they aren't willing to repent of their sins?
I believe Billy Graham had a good answer for this, he was quoted as saying: "It's the Holy Spirit's job to convict, God's job to judge, and my job to love". I found this quote in a book by Tony Campolo and Shane Claiborne "What if Jesus Really Meant What He Said" [Red Letter Revolution].
Another point made in this book was how people didn't say how the first century church was anti-gay, but how they loved one another. What is being said about today's church. Just the opposite, look at how anti-gay they are, rather than look at how well they love one another. Kind of implies that just maybe we've lost something in how we do church today vs 2000 years ago.
Another interesting point made in this book is that in the Bible there are two words used for the sexual act. One is the word Laid. There are places in the Bible where it says so and so lay with so and so. Even today folks talk about getting laid. Getting laid has nothing to do with love, it is dehumanizing where the purpose of sex is to relieve libido urges [their wording not mine]. The other word used for the sexual act is Knew. Adam KNEW Eve. The difference is that in the Knew type of sexual relationship the person knows and cares about the other person, they just aren't a sex toy to relieve their urges. They are bound together by their mutual love for the other, etc, etc.
Tony Campolo makes this statement in the book: "I'm not saying that people are born gay. I do believe, however that sexual orientation occurs so early in the development of children that they never remember choosing. What's just as important is that change in sexual orientation is extremely rare. Often attempts to change sexual orientation through what is called reparative therapy can do great psychological harm. The church needs to come to grips with these realities."
One final point from the book. The word abomination comes up as it is used in the the Bible about homosexuality, but note that that verse in Leviticus comes right shortly after the verse that says to touch the skin of a dead pig is an abomination to God...which puts the NFL season and the Super Bowl into serious question [Leviticus 11:7-11].
This is a major issue that somehow we in the church, who call Christ, Lord and Savior need to be praying about, seeking how to minister to these folks. I think any gay/lesbian person will tell you, they didn't choose this. I've had discussions with some gay/lesbians over the years and many ask, why would anyone CHOOSE to be the oddball? Lesbian women have said, I'd love to have a child, but I'm not attracted towards men, so should I pretend and marry some guy just so I can get pregnant? That would be a horrible thing to do to some man.
This is not an easy topic. I wish I had a ready answer to offer EarlGrey. I know that somehow, we in the church, generally are not reaching those folks for Christ, as Jesus died on the cross for all, including gay/lesbians. They too need to be reached with the Gospel [Good News] so they can be saved.
The Holy Spirit's job is to convict, God's job is to judge, and our job is to love. It is my opinion that Billy Graham is correct. The big question is, How do we do this? I believe that folks like us, need to spend more time reading the red lettered part of the Gospels [Jesus' words] where we'll possibly find some answers. I believe it might be fair to say that too many of us have allowed what could be called our "inner pharisee" to have reign rather than the love and grace that comes from the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ.
Somehow we, as the Church, need to recover that love and grace that overtook the ancient Roman world, that caused them to say: look at how they love one another.
Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jun 25, 2013 10:51pm
I re-read my post above and need to add one final thought:
The Church needs to recover that love and grace that overtook the ancient Roman world, that caused them to say look at how they love one another, BUT that doesn't mean we should compromise what God's Word says... sin is still sin. So we are to love and have grace for any and all sinners including gay/lesbians. As Jesus told the woman caught in adultery, I don't condemn you, go and sin no more. So We as the church should be saying as a body of believers: we as the church don't condemn you either, but as Jesus has told all of us who desire to follow him, go and sin no more.
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