WDEL Blog: Allan Loudell

Open Friday / Weekend Forum

So, which stories / issues / topics animate you this weekend?



We seem to be in for a "Groundhog Day" type cycle of summer weather: Every afternoon, threats of severe thunderstorms, with the inevitable accompanying uprooted trees and power outages.



Delaware legislators okayed the $477 Million capital budget that incorporated an $8 Million bail-out for the state's three racinos, technically not a relaxation of the tax burden, but to compensate for anticipated higher fees from vendors.



When it came to guns and law enforcement, it was a disappointing week for state Attorney General Beau Biden & the Markell Administration: State Senators soundly rejected legislation (which cleared the state House overwhelmingly, 40--1) that would have compelled mental health professionals to call police if a patient possessing firearms was thought to present a danger to himself/herself or others. The state Senate also turned back a proposed constitutional amendment that would have permitted judges to deny bail to any suspect accused of a violent felony.

Bottom line: Delaware legislators - who have moved left on so many social issues - drew the line on restricting guns. Proposed bans on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines imploded.



The United States Senate approved, 68--32, historic immigration legislation. But despite promises of military-style fortifications along the U.S./Mexican frontier, the immigration package still seems doomed in the Republican-dominated House of Representatives. Come July 10th, the very divided House Republican Conference will convene in the Capitol basement to discuss strategy for dealing with the Senate-passed bill.



Texas Governor Rick Perry has reconvened the Texas legislature Monday in another attempt to enact abortion restrictions. State Senator Wendy Davis (D-Fort Worth) became a pro-choice icon this past week for orchestrating a 13-hour filibuster under restrictive rules, which essentially blocked a vote on the abortion restrictions until it was too late. Davis concedes it may be difficult, if not impossible, to thwart the anti-abortion forces another time. (State senators actually passed the restrictions, 19-10, but AFTER the deadline.)


President Obama continues his trip to sub-Saharan Africa, with the precarious condition of former South African President Nelson Mandela potentially complicating Mr. Obama's trip to South Africa. President Obama has given short shrift to sub-Saharan Africa. I have my own theories as to why: Not wanting to give his conservative opponents any more ammo against him, so they could further paint him as some "foreigner", illegitimately in the Oval Office - and, although this President is said to have drawn great inspiration from Nelson Mandela, I suspect, Mr. Obama may be more drawn to Asia.



Diplomas for the graduating class of Radford University in Virginia carry an obvious spelling error this year: No final "i" in "Virginia" (Virgina). The RICHMOND TIMES-DISPATCH reports another typo: "Thereto" became "therto".



First Lady Michelle Obama's school lunch rules - designed to combat childhood obesity - commence next year. The Ag Department indicated all foods sold in schools would be covered by fat, calorie, sugar and sodium limits. High calorie sports drinks - which beverage companies put into school vending machines to replace high-calorie sodapop - would be yanked in favor of low-calorie sports drinks and diet teas and diet sodas.

One wonders if kids will try to "smuggle" in sugary & salty snacks & drinks from elsewhere.



Have you been following the trial of George Zimmerman?






Posted at 8:12am on June 28, 2013 by Allan Loudell

<- Back to all Allan Loudell posts



Comments on this post:

billsmith
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 8:17am
Rick Perry wanted the legislature to take up three issues but when he went on TV to make the announcement, he couldn't remember the other two. Dubya selected Perry because he considered Rick even dumber than he.

billsmith
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 8:27am
Political correctness run rampant yet again. The man is always wrong. The woman is always right.
___________________________________
Student sues Vassar College after he lost his virginity to a professor's daughter and one year later was expelled over 'false rape claim'

* Xiaolu 'Peter' Yu was expelled from Vassar College where he was a sophomore after what he says are false rape claims made by Mary Claire Walker
* Yu claims he lost his virginity to Walker, a student whose father is on the staff, in February 2012 after a party in what court documents describe as 'clearly consensual sexual activity'
* Walker accused Yu of rape a year after the alleged events and he was expelled from the college
* Yu filed documents yesterday suing for undisclosed damages on the grounds of gender discrimination, breach of contract and intentional infliction of emotional distress

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348969/Student-sues-Vassar-lost-virginity-professors-daughter-year-later-expelled-false-rape-claim.html#ixzz2XVsVCQ9b
_________________
She cries "rape" a year later and he gets kicked out. He hasn't been legally charged, let alone convicted of anything. But he's expelled on her say-so.


Arthur
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 9:11am
Imagine if you could get an honest answer from a politician; I'd like to ask "how many constituent called, wrote, e-mailed, etc., in support of giving the casinos $8 million and how many were against it?


teatime
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 9:38am
I'm tired of the state giving my money to the casinos.

As I've stated many times on this blog, the video lottery was legalized in 1994 to supplement the horsemen's purses. If the state dollars were given to the horsemen, that would be okay because that's what the original law was designed to do. But what they are doing is giving away taxpayers' dollars to multi-millionaires.

By the way, why are we bailing out the casinos? For the thousands of Delawareans out-of-work, would the casinos give you money to tide you over difficult times? Would the casinos give you money to stop your foreclosure?

The money given to bail-out the casino would've been better as a tax-refund to Delaware taxpayers.




billsmith
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 9:43am
More proof "military intelligence" is an oxymoron.

The Army has blocked access to The Guardian website on all bases and installations.

The more things change... When Tricky Dick was censor-in-chief, the DOD classified issues of the New York Times and Washington Post, among others, as "top secret." They did stop short of arresting newstand operators and newspaper delivery boys, however, but unauthorized military personnel were subject to court-martial for reading the paper.

http://www.montereyherald.com/local/ci_23554739/restricted-web-access-guardian-is-army-wide-officials

mrpizza
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 6:59pm
COMING SOON: Hey everybody. Get ready for civil unrest in Florida the next few weeks. It appears the case against George Zimmerman is rapidly falling apart.

I really tried to be objective and give Trayvon the benefit of the doubt, but apparently the evidence speaks otherwise.

Guess Jackson and Sharpton are gonna be cashing in on this one!

billsmith
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 7:35pm
Don't worry. They'll riot in Wilmington, too.

Bottom line: The mouth-breathing red-neck had a gun. Trayvon did not. No weapon at all. Everything else is meant to distract bigots like you.

mrpizza
Fri, Jun 28, 2013 10:27pm
Thanks, Bill. I shall wear it as a badge of honor! It's good to be a mouth-breathing red-neck bigot! Yyyyyyyyessssss!

billsmith
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 2:34am
Allan Loudell: Crying wolf again? At the top of the page is a red banner saying "storm watch is now active." Click on it, and it says "no alerts at this time."

billsmith
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 6:41am
The selfish and well-connected parents who got a judge to flaunt transplant rules and give their kid an adult-lung - taking the lung away from someone else.... Well, the first set of adult lungs failed (which is why rules were set up so kids would not have adult-sized lungs put into the small sized chest cavities), and now she has been given a second set of lungs - taken away from somebody else.
_________________________________
Parents who campaigned to change transplant rules reveal daughter, 10, had a SECOND double-lung implanted days after first one failed and she almost died

* Sarah Murnaghan has had a second lung transplant after the first one failed earlier this month
* She gained national exposure when her parents went public last month with the news that she only had weeks to live
* Initially she wasn't allowed to be on the adult organ donor waiting list, and child donors are rare
* A judge placed an order to put her on the adult list, and the national organ transplant network complied
* Since her second transplant she has taken her first breaths

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351191/Parents-campaigned-change-transplant-rules-reveal-daughter-10-SECOND-double-lung-implanted-days-failed-died.html#ixzz2XbFLLxUS
_________________________________________
The kid has cystic fibrosis. It's hereditary. You get from two recessive genes, one from each parent. These two parents should never have kids together. They are not only selfish but irresponsible. The kid will have a miserable life because of them. Now, these two twits are going on TV thanking god. If there were a god, these two would be struck by lightening. But instead they condemn this kid to a miserable existence.

They live in Newtown Square, Delaware County, PA. If you want to go to their house and let them what despicable people they are, look for all the TV trucks on the front lawn.

mrpizza
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 10:22am
billsmith: I can't figure out who's the most insensitive, you, or Kathleen Sebelius. Oh by the way, Ms. Sebelius is from Kansas, the same state as Westboro Baptist!

billsmith
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 1:42pm
Pizza: Talk about "insensitive." You don't care about all the people on the transplant waiting list who got bumped by these people - twice (so far). But Rush wants to make an issue of this and you let Rush do your thinking for you.
Actually, Kathleen is from Cincinnati. She's hot. I'd hit that.

Mike from Delaware
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 6:54pm
Arthur: Excellent question for Gov. Markell. My guess is only those associated with those "racinos". If any of our companies were going to lay off folks , it would too bad, no help from Jack.

mrpizza
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 8:29pm
billsmith: So, do you listen to the great Rush Limbaugh? If you know what he's telling me, then you must be tuning in.

Be careful. If you walk to close along the river bank, you could fall in!

billsmith
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 8:29pm
MikeFromDelaware: C'mon, Dude. You know it's just about the money. Public be damned. Best government money can buy. Corporate media only exist to con people into thinking their opinions matter, despite all evidence to the contrary.

kavips
Sat, Jun 29, 2013 11:32pm
Rush's listeners are down 36% I just read. Probably because he makes no sense.

mrpizza
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 2:12am
Kavips: What news source did you get that from, the National Enquirer?

billbrent
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 8:42am
Concerning HB 88;

No one has reported this better then Steve Newton of "Delaware Libertarian". So I won't even try, here is part of "the story".

The News Journal editorial board apparently thought that HB 88 (the fatally flawed "common sense" bill for keeping firearms out of the hands of the seriously mentally ill) was such a slam dunk after it passed the House 40-1 that the paper didn't even bother to publish an editorial piece supporting it.

Oops.

Today the WNJ opines that this "common sense" bill is a critical "if only" opportunity:

If House Bill 88 dies in the state Senate, it runs the chance of becoming one of those “if only” bills. That is what they said after the Aurora, Colo., shootings, when a mentally ill patient armed with guns and bullets, walked into a movie theater opened fire and killed 12 people.

If only Colorado had a law that kept deadly firearms out of the hands of a dangerous mental patient ...

If only Colorado had a law that allowed trained mental health professionals to alert police when a disturbed patient is threatening violence ...

If only ...

House Bill 88 would provide Delaware with such a law. It was passed overwhelmingly by the House earlier in the legislative session. But it stumbled in the Senate this week when a high-pressure push caused some senators to back away from earlier commitments. The legislative session does not end until midnight Sunday. There is still time to bring it back and vote again.

There are only two other passages that you need to read from this editorial.

The first is:

Why is it then that we will we use mental illness as a way of lessening the punishment for someone who used a gun in a crime, but not as a means of keeping that gun from getting into his hands?

Delawareans should ask their state Senators to explain that logic.

And the second is:

Is the bill perfect? No bill is perfect.

Not perfect? Perish the thought.

When even ardent supporter of any possible restriction on gun rights, cassandra of Delawareliberal, admits

Adding on the drug charges and the domestic violence may be overreach

--you know there is a problem.

Here are the problems, seriatem



1. This bill doesn't focus solely on the dangerously mentally ill. It also provides for the near-automatic revocation of gun rights for anyone convicted of simple possession of marijuana or misdemeanor domestic abuse. One does not have to be an advocate for either drug legalization (I am) or domestic abuse (I'm not) to realize that this is an attempt by the Attorney General's office and Democratic co-sponsors to make as broad an attack as possible on gun rights.

2. The bill's due process provision--even after the change from preponderance of the evidence to a standard of clear and convincing evidence--are inadequate, as even Senator Patti Blevins is reported to have worried. The reality is that the hearing in which the State attempts to remove your 2nd Amendment rights has significant problems. To wit, here is the current wording of the bill:

(b) The Department shall have the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence [clear and convincing evidence] that the respondent is dangerous to others or self as defined in Section 5122 of Title 16. The respondent shall have the right to present evidence and be heard in any such proceedings. In the event that the Court makes such a finding, the Court shall issue an order to relinquish respondent’s firearms or ammunition under this section, and such order shall be reported to the Delaware State Bureau of Investigation for purposes of establishing that such person is a person prohibited from the possession or purchase of deadly weapons pursuant to § 1448 of Title 11.

Did you catch what was missing? The respondent has no guaranteed right to have an attorney present in these proceedings.

You may assume that the right to counsel is automatically guaranteed, but since the respondent (note, not the "defendant") has not been charged with a crime, this is an administrative hearing, not a trial. I can tell you from many years of working in labor law that in administrative hearings if the right to the presence of an attorney is not spelled out in the rules, then the hearing officer can bar attorneys from being present.

So what we are doing here is removing constitutional rights from someone who the State alleges is mentally unstable, and then potentially requiring them to answer these charges without the right to have an attorney present?

In other words, no matter how this is worded, the State will NEVER lose a case.

This, and other problems with the bill, COULD HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED via amendment, but the sponsors and their cohort of lobbyists have been unwilling to do so.

What a majority of Delaware State Senators did last week was refuse to accept a poorly crafted bill that is rife with both legislative "overreach" (cassandra's word, not mine) and inadequate due process provisions.

If the intent of our legislators is craft a bill purely to keep guns out of the hands of the demonstrably mentally ill, then let them actually introduce such a bill.

Liberals demand this bill be passed regardless of the broad elimination of rights because they believe the intent is noble.

Libertarians refuse to compromise and allow the liberal sponsors to (knowingly) sneak in such secondary provisions no matter how loudly they stoop to name-calling in order to confuse the real issue.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 1:42pm
Bill smith : thanks for that info on the actual wording of HB 88. I agree with the Libertarians on this one, add an amendment or whatever & then pass the bill.

billsmith
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 1:53pm
MikeFromDelaware: Look again. It was another Bill.

billsmith
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 1:59pm
Christian intolerance at work again. Christians riot and disrupt dedication ceremony for atheist monument.

____________________________
Confrontational erupts as Atheist group erects monument against God next to Ten Commandments stone slab in Florida

A small group of protesters blasted Christian country music and waved 'Honk for Jesus' signs as the atheists celebrated the first atheist monument allowed on government property in the United States.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351887/Confrontational-scenes-Atheist-group-erects-monument-God-Ten-Commandments-stone-slab.html
_______________________________________

kavips
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 3:47pm
Mr. Pizza. In reference to Rush listenership being down 36%, the source was Clear Channel.

kavips
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 4:08pm
In regards to bill 88, Steve's only objection is that the word "attorney" is not written into the law, it does not specifically mention him by name that he has a right to be present.

Well, using word search software across the entire Delaware Code, there is no reference to attorneys having to be mentioned in code to be allowed into a hearing for their clients. Whether DMV, Workman's Comp, Unemployment, labor Dept., Accident Investigations, attending attorneys are not specified in Delaware code before attending any other government hearing. Yet they are always there.

So it is a moot point. It is like saying one can't be arrested for speeding on a highway because there is no mention of the time it takes for the officer to write a ticket while you sit in your car waiting.. That is just an assumed act that is so assumed, it needs not be mentioned and is actually a waste of ink, in having it mentioned at all.

The idea that an attorney is going to be refused entrance at the hearing door, because his role is not specified in the bill, is poppycock. Who is going to risk the subsequent expense of being sued by an attorney one refused entrance, then wind up paying the resulting court costs and attorney's fees, because he will automatically win when it goes to court, for the judge knows the attorney on a daily basis, but has never heard of you before? "What?" he says to the attorney. "Some nut refused you entrance into a client's hearing? That's unconstitutional!!!!!!"

Yes, it can be added later and that would indeed be over micro-managing, but things like that do get done. it's a tiny point. No problem. But with passage and the signing of this bill, beginning immediately, someone in Delaware like James Holmes, who writes letters to his psychiatrist explaining in great detail how he is going on a rampage and kill lots of innocent first graders before taking his own life, can be barred from having those weapons. Had Colorado had this law last Summer, James Holmes would have been in an healing institution instead of a jail cell pleading not guilty for reasons of insanity. Had Connecticut had this legislation, Adam Lanza would not have been able to do what he did.

There would be a lot fewer holes in Aurora's and Newton's peoples lives today, had this law been passed..

Delaware has always been the first state. 88 should not be held up just because of some playing around with the word "attorney'...


Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 5:51pm
Bill Brent : Sorry about that, thank you for that info. Thanks Bill smith, I'm using my IPod & the names are real small.

Welcome Bill Brent.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 6:14pm
Bill smith: I don't agree with those folks protesting the Athiests putting a monument. They have as much a right as we Christians. It's supposed to work both ways. My question for you I is if it were reversed would you be in support of the 10 Commandments going up next to the Athiest's monument?

mrpizza
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 6:56pm
MFD: The problem here is that there's a double standard. The courts have already taken down scores of monuments and references to God. However, it won't matter how many Christians complain about this, there's no judge that will apply the same standard to atheists and atheism. In fact, you won't have to worry about that 10 commandments monument going up next to the atheist one. The atheists will shoot on sight anybody who tries to put one up.

billsmith
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 7:38pm
Allan Loudell: Please note: Pizza says atheists shoot people on sight. How much of his hate speech will you tolerate?

Pizza: If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that atheists wanted the 10 commandments removed. They agreed to drop their suit if they could put up their own monument. And it was the Christians who attacked the atheists, not the other way around.

It's also Christians who want assault weapons. Look at the overlap between religious right, the tea party, and guns rights organizations. It's only Christians who have to be right and have a history of killing anybody who is wrong.

Christianity's appeal is to authoritarian personalities.

Christian's pay-off is...
To make yourself right, and others wrong.
To dominate and to avoid domination.
To justify yourself and invalidate others.

And maybe you get to heaven, too.

MikeFromDelaware will come tell me I'm wrong, and the shoe doesn't fit him very well. But you, Pizza, are Exhibit A.

MikeFromDelaware: My choice would be no monuments at all. I am also troubled by the presumption of many Christians that the alternative to Christianity is atheism, when there are hundreds of other belief systems in the world. It strikes me as somewhat arrogant. I see atheists and Christians as fundamentally similar. Both are certain they know. Both have to be right. The Christians disrupting the atheists' ceremony is classic dissonance reduction strategy (see Toward a Theory of Cognitive Dissonance). If these Christians' faith were a strong as they claim, they would not be bothered by a few atheists installing a bench and a tablet.

Mike from Delaware
Sun, Jun 30, 2013 10:23pm
Billsmith said: " My choice would be no monuments at all. The Christians disrupting the atheists' ceremony is classic dissonance reduction strategy (see Toward a Theory of Cognitive Dissonance). If these Christians' faith were a strong as they claim, they would not be bothered by a few atheists installing a bench and a tablet."

Many Christians do realize there are many other beliefs, but we also do believe that Christ is the only way as Jesus said that himself in John 14:6 [NRSV : New Revised Standard Version]- Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

As far as the monument issue, I have no problem with monuments, but the bigger problem is each group, be they Christian, Atheist, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc., etc., needs to be tolerant and respectful of other people's monuments [this isn't rocket science, but more like the Golden Rule]. For some reason this is a real problem. So, because of that lack of tolerance and respectfulness for other's beliefs and the monuments that represent each faith, Billsmith might be correct in saying it's better to have none. That's a real shame.

I think back to when we were in Iraq back in the early part of the Bush Jr. years, and the Muslims blew up those Buddhist statues that were carved into a stone wall or cliff [they were gigantic and very beautiful - a real work of art]. I'm not remotely interested in the Buddhist religion, but I can appreciate good art, a skilled craftmen's work, and respect that those statues have meaning to someone and THEIR faith. Blowing up those statues had no purpose, but to spread more darkness around the globe.

Those Christians who are protesting the Atheists' monument aren't serving Christ. I doubt Jesus would have made an issue of it. He said, come and follow me. Then he moved on to the next town. If you followed, you were one of his, if you didn't he didn't get upset, come back and destroy some of your stuff to make you pay for your lack of wanting to follow him.

People don't come to Christ by watching Christians act like the "world". They come to Christ when they see that the love and grace Christ gives to his believers is real and very different from the "world".


mrpizza
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 2:57am
I think all of you are reading this story the wrong way. For over 50 years, beginning with Madeline Murray-O'Hair, atheists have been systematically removing religious freedom and references to God from the American landscape. I don't think this group of Christians is "acting like the world" as Mike believes, but instead realize that if they don't speak up, they'll be left with no voice at all.


mrpizza
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 3:03am
billsmith: You scream racism anytime somebody has something to say about homosexuals or atheists, but you think it's perfectly fine to make racist comments about Christians. Don't forget, we're a group too just like any other.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 4:54am
Pizza, I comment about things Christians (among others) do and say. Do and say bad things, I comment. I don't comment on whose doctrine is right or wrong. I agree with Robert Heinlien: All religions look ridiculous from the outside.

Don't forget, it was Jesus who said pray in secret. Not Madeline Murray O'Hare. And getting in people's faces and disrupting their dedication, climbing on their monument, goes way beyond speaking up. So does saying atheists shoot people on sight.

Roger Williams was a Baptist clergyman. He fled Massachusetts and founded Rhode Island because of the intolerance of Puritans. He called forcing prayers on people in secular public events "spiritual rape."

mrpizza
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 7:10am
billsmith: Roger Williams was also one of the great concert pianists of all time, along with Peter Nero and Van Clyburn.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 7:29am
And Nero was an emperor. And maybe you mean Van Cliburn.

teatime
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 8:06am

The governor would rather balance the budget on the poor, those who suffer from compulsive gambling prgrama.

Each year, a larger and larger of the state budget relies on gambling revnue. Then one day, Dover Downs and Del Park shut dow, that revenue stream vanishes complely, and the state has to endure a massive set of cutbacks.

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 9:33am
Mrpizza: What would be your reaction if when you went to some public County Council meeting at the County Office Complex on Commons Blvd, and they started the meeting off with saying the Hail Mary? It IS a Christian prayer. However, most Protestants do not say it, because we don't pray to Mary or the Saints, only to God, but it IS a Christian prayer.

I know Catholics pray this prayer [they are the largest group of Christians in the world]. I also believe the Orthodox Christians also pray this prayer [they are the second largest Christian group in the world]. So are you saying that ONLY Protestant Christian prayers be allowed? This shows the problem. I know "born again" Catholics who truly love the Lord. I also know Catholics who don't claim the born again title, but also truly love the Risen Christ. Yet these folks have no problem in saying the Hail Mary. So as those two groups represent the largest Christian denominations in the world, you might be over ruled and start hearing the Hail Mary prayer at public meetings. My guess is, you'd not want to pray or have to sit through listening to others praying the Hail Mary.

I remember years ago [about 20-25 years ago] taking some Evangelical friends to see the Via Crucis, [Latin, it means the way of the cross], at St. Anthony's in Wilmington. This is a very dramatic presentation of Jesus' last days leading up to his crucifixion on the cross. The music is incredibly powerful, the voice of the narrator was powerful, with a baritone quality that anyone in radio would have loved to have had. The choir superb along with their large pipe organ, the actors wore authentic costoms and the inside of St.Anthony's has that "Roman Empire" look to it so, this was truly a moving presentation.

Anyhow, this is the stations of the cross, that Catholics do during Lent. Part of that is saying the Hail Mary. Well my two friends liked to have gone nuts when the praying started. Something about being in a pagan place of worship and stuff like that. They wanted to run out of the place. I had to quietly say to them, OK this part isn't for you, its for them. The rest is for you. Sorry I forgot about the praying part. Please don't be disrespectful this is a house of worship, and a Christian house of worship to boot. Please sit back and be blessed by what God has for you here tonight. They settled down and we got through it fine and they probably have a great story to share about the time their nutty former Catholic brother in Christ took them to see the Via Crucis in a Catholic church. I believe St. Anthony's still does this each Friday in Lent. If you can get past the part of hearing folks praying to Mary and can simply sit quietly during that part, you really should go and experience it.

Getting us back on topic, my guess is you'd not want to hear folks praying the Hail Mary in a public meeting. This is why I prefer the Moment of Silence. This allows me to pray to the Lord in my own way, it allows you that same joyful moment. It allows Billsmith to pray in a way that works for him. It allows Allan Loudell to say a Hail Mary if he desires. It allows your Jewish/Muslim/Hindu, etc, etc, neighbors to pray silently in a manner that works for them or for the rest to NOT pray as they check their cell phones for messages. The point is each American gets to do what works for them, and THAT is an American principle.

There is nowhere in the Bible where Jesus is forcing others to pray as he does, or forcing others to become his follower. He offers the free gift and invites all to partake of it. Those who do, become his people, those who walk away leave empty handed, by their own choice as Christ desires all to be saved. Jesus tells us to have a humble heart like he has, how does demanding the Lord's Prayer be said in a "secular" public meeting demonstrate a humble heart like Christ's? How does demanding the 10 Commandments be on display in a public court house demonstrate a humble heart like Christ's? How does protesting the Athiest's monument demonstrate a humble heart like Christ's? Would Jesus do any of that?? THAT's the standard we are to follow. I'm certainly NOT speaking as an expert in doing this, but it is the standard none the less.


billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 11:11am
MikeFromDelaware: Excellent points. Given Pizza's intolerance of Islam, I can picture him going - ahem - postal if a Muslim prayer were offered at some public event. Or if a Muslim congregation wanted to build a mosque in his neighborhood (which Christian groups have tried to block in different parts of the country).

I also wonder how he'd react if a group of non-protestants decided to disrupt protestant prayers at some public event in exactly the same way those Christians in Florida did.

I bet a lot of fundamentalists would object if at a public meeting they had a priest get up and say the Catholic short-version of the lord's prayer, let alone the hail Mary.

When I was little, I attended Catholic services a few times. Still in Latin, so I didn't get most of it. But it puzzled me when they switched to English and started talking about Jesus' underwear. It was sometime later I realized they were saying "fruit of thy womb," not Fruit of the Loom. ;)

I still have to wonder if Pizza means anything he posts. I suspect he just trolls for the perverse joy of it.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 12:17pm
Pizza's been quiet. I guess he joined the Westboro bunch to picket Sen. Karen Peterson's wedding.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 12:22pm
It's not just Sebelius raising questions about this. Still no sympathy for the two people who did not get transplants because some well-connected parents got a judge to let them break the rules.
__________________________________
Ethicists question giving girl second lung transplant

Liz Szabo, USA TODAY 11:32 a.m. EDT July 1, 2013

The operation on 10-year-old Pennsylvania girl raises new questions about the best use of a precious resource.
Murnaghans

* Girl's parents sued to get 10-year-old onto waiting list for adult lung transplant
* Children typically are placed on lists for child-size lungs, which become available less often
* The girl received a second set of lungs after the first adult set of lungs failed

The second lung transplant given to a 10-year-old Pennsylvania girl raises new questions about how to make the best use of a precious resource, ethicists say.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/01/girls-second-lung-transplant/2477699/

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 12:43pm
Billsmith: Mrpizza takes his walk with Christ very seriously as he should. He and I are just at different places of that journey, and have had different life experiences that also can affect how we view things, our study of the Word, the preaching/teaching we've received over the years, etc, etc, all color how we grow in our walk. Again the smoked colored glass thing. None of us have all the truth, but we are to strive to reach all the truth in Christ. I believe Mrpizza is doing that, we just are at different places in that life journey.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 1:38pm
MikeFromDelaware: Would you say the same about the Westboro bunch? Pizza is a bully and he perverts your religion in order to use it to bully people. He's not the only one and maybe he will grow out of it. Maybe not. Right now he's preaching hate in the name of your religion and you are acting like that's OK with you.
He also perverts the principles on which this country was established. I know that's not all right with me.

Curiously, Christians don't hesitate to speak up when they disapprove of somebody's sex life or their reproductive choices but when somebody is preaching hate in the name of Christianity, you all look the other way.

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 3:03pm
Billsmith: I don't agree with Mrpizza on a number of issues and have addressed those here numerous times [which my earlier post about the Hail Mary tried to address one such issue. But I don't assume to judge my brother in Christ, I'm simply offering thoughts to him that might be helpful in his walk, as they assisted me.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 4:13pm
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Matt 7:15-23

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 6:08pm
Bill smith: the Holy Spirit convicts, God judges, and my job is to love.

billsmith
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 6:49pm
MikeFromDelaware: Where did you get that from? Especially that "Holy Spirit convicts" part (implying the Holy Spirit is distinct from god). The role of the Holy Spirit was to comfort, teach and inspire. Where did you get "convict." Actually, that is Satan's role.

mrpizza
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 8:04pm
MFD: I'm okay with the Hail Mary. It isn't my cup of tea, but at least the Catholics believe in the real God. Works for me.

mrpizza
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 8:12pm
To answer the Zimmerman question, I predict a hung jury and the case dismissed for lack of evidence. Not that there isn't evidence, but it's very clouded and in some ways almost contradictory. Reasonable doubt comes into play here.

Don't get me wrong here. I think both George and Trayvon are guilty of being stupid.

kavips
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 10:13pm
Roger Staubach believes in the hail Mary. Fran Tarkenton does not though.

Mike from Delaware
Mon, Jul 1, 2013 10:39pm
Mrpizza: I'm glad to hear that you'd not freak out if someone said the Hail Mary prayer at a public meeting.

Lent starts on Ash Wednesday and the Via Crucis [the Station's of the Cross] at St. Anthony's used to start the Friday after Ash Wednesday and they'd do it each Friday evening throughout Lent. If St. Anthony's is still doing the Via Crucis you might want to go see it. It was quite an experience. If you take other non-Catholic Christians with you, be sure to give them a head's up that the congregation will say the Hail Mary after each station of the cross, to avoid the issue I had those many years ago.


billsmith
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 12:40am
Once again, Pizza shows he feels entitled to force his own dogma on everybody else. At least those religious nazis in Florida had the guts to get in the atheists' faces. They didn't just troll message boards with hate posts.
Time for people who care about freedom to start finding out if Christians really do turn the other cheek.

mrpizza
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 3:54am
billsmith: What would you know about freedom? You certainly don't think I should have any!

billsmith
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 4:59am
Pizza: Freedom to bully other people? Freedom to impose your "beliefs" on other people? No, I don't think you should have that "freedom."

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 8:44am
Billsmith, EarlGrey, Kavips, and Mrpizza:

Here is a 3:47 minute song video of the Prayer of St. Francis [Francis of Assisi]. The video was shot in Assisi, Italy. Below I've posted the Prayer of St. Francis, it's worth using as a devotional or a thought for the day. This just re-enforces the Conviction and Judgment are God's job, and to Love is our job. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI1Gst7pEqc


Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.


O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen



billsmith
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 9:27am
MikeFromDelaware: I still am curious about the source (and context) of the statement "the Holy Spirit convicts, God judges, and my job is to love."
I especially wonder which meaning for convict is intended ("moving a person by argument or evidence to belief, agreement, consent, or a course of action; the act of convincing.")
I never saw anything in scripture to suggest the Holy Spirit takes the role of celestial prosecutor, as your statement seems to suggest.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 10:34am
Billsmith: I commented on this last Thursday in the post that began with Wow on DOMA. Here is what I said referencing that quote:

"So my question remains: How can we bring Christ’s grace and love to them [gay/lesbians] while not compromising on the Word? That really is the bottom line for any of us who call Jesus Lord and Savior.

I believe Billy Graham had a good answer for this, he was quoted as saying: "It's the Holy Spirit's job to convict, God's job to judge, and my job to love". I found this quote in a book by Tony Campolo and Shane Claiborne "What if Jesus Really Meant What He Said" [Red Letter Revolution]."

My interpretation of what Rev. Graham was saying is as the Holy Spirit dwells in each believer, he will "nudge" our conscience on things, like sinful behavior for example. So the Holy Spirit's job is to convict [cause us to realize] that what we are doing is wrong or out of God's will or desire for us, etc, so we make a change of course in whatever it is the Holy Spirit is "convicting" us of.

That's just my interpretation, and I'm certainly no theologian and may be totally wrong, but that's how I read Billy Graham's meaning.

billsmith
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 12:01pm
MikeFromDelaware: Got it. Makes more sense now. I was reading convict as "to prove or declare guilty of an offense, especially after a trial." Problem with all those preachers who have gotten too used to the King James Version is they seem to think everybody speaks Elizabethan English.

Greek had several words generally translated as "love" (unlike English). In this context the word is "agape," which meant kindness, compassion or (in the King James Version) charity. It doesn't mean you have to like somebody or even approve of their actions. Just be nice to them and help them out of they need it. Of course, I don't see those qualities in the tea party or the religious right.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 1:22pm
Billsmith: I agree with your post.

All to often we believers can slip into "Christianese" and confuse those who aren't familiar with how the word or words are being used that is different from Webster's meanings. Good point.

The only change I'd make to your post above, is I don't see those qualities in SOME OF the tea party or religious right [but my experience my be different than yours thus our difference in my adding "some of" to your sentence].

billsmith
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 4:01pm
MikeFromDelaware: I have to admit a certain fondness for the King James Version. It's great writing and along with Shakespeare shaped the English language. None of the more recent translations comes close to it as literature. It was written to be read aloud, and I can understand why preachers like it.

That said, Jews have to gain at least a reading knowledge of Hebrew to be Bar Mitvahed. Muslims learn Arabic. But very few Christians, included many Christian clergy, learn Greek or Hebrew to read the Bible in the original. A century ago, many colleges required a reading knowledge of Latin and classical Greek and expected to students to read the Bible and other classic works in the original. Not any more. Learning languages, even dead ones, is one of the best ways to train the mind but the educational establishment decided it's not practical. Even modern language requirements have been relaxed (as more of the US population does not speak English). Language shapes how we think and how we see the world. Can't tell what anything really means if you don't know the original language.

Mike from Delaware
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 5:48pm
Bill smith: excellent point. I agree.

mrpizza
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 6:03pm
billsmith: That was an excellent description you gave about yourself in your 4:59 AM post.

billsmith
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 6:37pm
Unemployed and publicly genuflecting football player Tim Tebow may not be so good and holy after.

Accused murderer and football player Aaron Hernandez, Tebow's teammate at Florida, went to a local bar near the university. He was 17 at the time. He managed to get a few drinks and then refused to pay. He was escorted out and then sucker punched the boxer. Turns out Tim Tebow (age 20 - also below the drinking age) was at the bar with Hernandez and pulled him off the bouncer.

Maybe Tebow was just in the bar to save a few souls.

mrpizza
Tue, Jul 2, 2013 8:03pm
billsmith: In which tabloid publication did you read that?
Perhaps the Huffing and Puffing and blow-the-house-down Post?

kavips
Wed, Jul 3, 2013 12:21am
I read this, but can't remember who or where they provided the link, but supposedly the only reason the Patriots hired Tim Tebow was in case Hernandez brought on too much heat, if the Patriots had to make their escape, they could use a white Bronco.

Funny how well all those events fit together exactly perfect to make that joke happen... lol..

billsmith
Wed, Jul 3, 2013 2:23am
Pizza: "Tabloid?" "Huffington Post?" You really should not use words when you don't know what they mean.
But since you asked so nicely, it was from Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal. I see that lots of other news organizations have run it, including Fox News. I don't see that Huffington has picked it up.
But Murdoch's New York Post, which actually is a tabloid, has run it.

I know: You don't think you can possibly be a moral and spiritual bully because you are right and your religion is the only truth. Just like the US is cannot be a bully because it is the "good guys." Interesting how people like you try to justify their actions.

mrpizza
Sun, Jul 7, 2013 3:03pm
billsmith: Take it up with God.

kavips
Sun, Jul 7, 2013 4:57pm
Bill Smith needs to watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eud4TBFsOSk


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